Offside Set

Victoryan · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:12 am Hello I'm Victoryan

Hey OSS people! :icon_hi:

Starting from the first ACL game I'm looking for a place to support the boys with my young family (the Missus, and our 4 y.o. girl and 9 month boy).

Up 'til now the South End has been the choice for me but now that we'll be bringing our little girl along I don't really want to surround her with drunken loutishness (The main problem I have being the "t**s out for the boys" chants prevelant while the SE has been relocated).

However sitting silently and politely clapping after a goal is not my idea of going to the football (I tend to yell at the TV when watching an away game so...) so the thought of Level 3 was not exactly exciting for me.

Anyway I'd like to thank gweeds and Daydream for putting me onto this forum, I've known about you guys for a long time but not being aware of the forum have been searching for OSS threads over at the 'darkside' and kind of figured you'd folded as there aren't many.

Anyway I'll catch up with you guys at the games (Once I find out where you'll be :D )

Victoryan · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:14 am

Oh btw,

something i'd love to hear about is the experiences in the terraces of kids and parents of kids about 4 years old. If there have been any?

Daydream · Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:10 am

HI VICTORYAN!!!!!!

So glad you made it! Make sure you have a good look around this site and see what you think, reply to threads with your thoughts and ideas, would love to hear what you reckon about everything.

CLMV · Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:14 am

Hi Victoryan and welcome.

I waited to see you in here before taking part in this convo.

I want to give you a bit of an idea what has been going on for us, and how we have been managing this issue.

WARNING

Several LONG posts coming up.

CLMV · Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:37 am

OSS was formed at towards the end of season one. It included some people who were participating in the NT at the time, and some from elsewhere.

We wanted to assert that families DO want to be involved in active support - that in fact many kids love it - and that there were people around who wanted to be active, but didn't quite fit with either the NT or the South End.

We got together a small group of people and worked out a section of OP that has not been claimed by anyone, and we could try to make our own.

Then MVFC moved to TD, and had a massive population explosion.

Instead of a nice bit of terrace at OP, we had to contend with trying to carve out in a niche in seated areas, surrounded by seated and silent people.

We identified an area, and set about trying to make it ours. Then it got turned into a Gold reserved area, and we had to move again.

We found it difficult to settle on a spot, and difficult to establish a third area as a standing area.

After the second season, we again debated where to locate ourselves in the stadium. We decided that our style of support was not totally compatible with either end, but that we should give the northern end of the ground a go, given that we enjoyed having flag, banners, streamers, balloons and other colour as well as singing (many of which are seen as incompatible with the South End culture).

This too did not work.

As we left our little network to work it out for themselves, we ended up gravitating to the South End. Not necessarily all together in a clump, as some prefer front rows, and some higher up. But we realised that is where we pretty much all were for most games.

When the South End was closed, OSS people found themselves in the so-called New South.

During last season, we did not pursue the goal of carving out a separate area with its own style of support.

We did continue to operate, though, as a loose supporter group.

We network through this site, and word of mouth. Groups of us still tend to come together at games. We co-ordinate ticket buying. Some get together to go the pub for games on Foxtel.

It is, as I said, loose. But the network extends across about 40 people, including kids.

There are also other families that we know of who participate in the terrace, but do their own thing.

CLMV · Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:50 am

My own experience of bringing kids is this.

I have 3 kids, now aged 10 - 15. So the youngest was 7 when we first started going to Victory games.

We find the best place for us is at the edge of the active support area.
We like to be close enough to join in chants, but not hemmed in by a dense crowd of big people.

The freer environment of the OP terrace was much better for us - so much easier to gravitate the edges, move short people forward in the crowd, no seats to stand on etc. TD has been harder for many reasons - the rigidity of the seated formation, the crowds and overcrowding in standing areas, terrace politics.

We found a niche in New South that is kind of ok - bottom rows, on the aisle, and next to a seated area. We ended up there most of the season.

We head for the front rows, so there are fewer rows of tall people standing in front of us. We stick to the aisle to feel less hemmed in, and be close to the adjacent seated area.

(One of the things that impacts on family groups is that often only some members of the family want to stand - it can work to be on the fringe so that some sit and some stand, by they can stay in touch.)

Not all OSS people like this spot - some prefer to be higher up the stand for a better view of the pitch. But it is where my family goes, and we are usually joined by several others.

CLMV · Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:08 am

I personally find feel uncomfortable with aspects of the South End. I don't like the homophobia and sexism of chants. I especially hate the 'tits out'. My kids don't like this stuff either - it is not just me.

Initially when we tried out the South End, my kids reacted strongly against it, and we moved away.

As things have evolved, however, we have found the South End seems to be most viable place to be for us. The kids have got used to some of the things they were not comfortable with. We do not participate in the chants we object to - sometimes we change the lyrics. They like that it is active and loud and standing. They like that their friends know where to find them.

I still feel like a South End misfit. I do not identify as British. I do not want to drink vast amounts of beer. I do not want to abuse the opposition (unless it is genuinely witty). I want to wave flags and chuck streamers and let off farting balloons and play my kazoo.

I think there is a group of us around who would feel happier with a third way. But I don't know if there are enough of us - or at least not yet - to try to carve out a space.

I don't think I am in a position any more to pioneer a new space. I go to the football with a whole bunch of people, including my husband and kids. For a while they were willing to follow me. But they are a bit burnt out now. I am not sure I could persuade them to move again. I can no longer persuade them it is worth going to a game an hour early to carve out standing room. They want to be where there is already a loud crowd.

I have not given up on the idea of a different area evolving with its own character. In time.

CLMV · Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:32 am

Finally, to the question of four year olds.

My kids are older now. But we do have experience of taking young kids to football. My husband used to take our older two kids to Carlton (Soccer) games when they were little.

Much depends on the character of the child. They did not go into the thick of supporters then. But my then 4 yo daughter was happy to go, while my son hated it. He continued to refuse to go to any football (inc AFL) for years. He just did not like being in a crowded, loud place.

Other people have also found that their kid's personality impacts on where they feel comfortable at games. Some kids are born to sit quietly at the mid-line and watch intently, even though their parents love to chant and chuck beer in the air.

When you are at a game with little kids, you need to be on the aisle, so you can get out easily. There is a good parents room at TD South End, for baby changing. There are restrictions on where they let you take pushers, but there are the wheelchair spots where you can park them.

I would suggest, logistically, that you would be ok in the aisle next to the South End, at the back, where you can keep the pram, close enough for you to join in the chanting, but easily able to get out for food, toileting walking round the concourse.

Stay away from big groups of teenagers cos they tend to stand on the seats so you can't see, and may fling themselves about when a goal is scored, potentially landing on someone.

I don't expect huge crowds for the ACL games.

Your other issue is offensive content.

Can't help you there really.

There is no point going anywhere near the South End if you are worried about being exposed to drunkenness, swearing and offensive chants. They are part of it - and for many people they are the point of it.

There is something a tad contradictory about a terrace keeping itself nice.

For myself, I am not that bothered by my kids being exposed to the swearing and offensive chants. We do use alternative lyrics for a couple. We stay silent for tits out chant.

I personally think it is unlikely that a four year old would even hear clearly enough to pick up on the lyrics of 'tits out' or 'tits fanny and football' especially if no-one immediately around her was saying them. You could easily talk to her over the top of the chant, so she would not be able to hear the words.

So I don't believe corrupting the four year old is a big issue. (And I am a kinder teacher, so I know a bit about four year olds).

On the other hand, if your wife is going to be shocked, you might find it hard to get away with.

I would suggest you make sure she understands what it will be like, and that you don't wholeheartedly approve of all of it, and only go there with the kids if she agrees to try it.

If it proves too much, you can always move.

Daydream · Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:37 am

CLMV wrote:

Other people have also found that their kid's personality impacts on where they feel comfortable at games. Some kids are born to sit quietly at the mid-line and watch intently, even though their parents love to chant and chuck beer in the air.

.

ROFL, this is particularly the case with me, as everyone knows!!! It's incredibly frustrating.

Really great contribution CLM, good summary.

GweedsOSS · Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:38 am

Daydream wrote: CLMV wrote:

Other people have also found that their kid's personality impacts on where they feel comfortable at games. Some kids are born to sit quietly at the mid-line and watch intently, even though their parents love to chant and chuck beer in the air.

.

ROFL, this is particularly the case with me, as everyone knows!!! It's incredibly frustrating.

Really great contribution CLM, good summary.

I agree with Daydream. Top posts CLM. We should keep them when we want to explain OSS in the future.

Victoryan · Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:20 am

Hi guys, thanks for the welcome...

CLMV wrote: WARNING

Several LONG posts coming up.

Don't worry about that I usually find I write essays when posting myself and tend to like it better that way for some reason.

So I'll go grab a drink and some food now, sit back and read through the posts and reply once I'm finished.

DD wrote: Make sure you have a good look around this site and see what you think

I actually spent a lot of time late last night going through the forum. I really liked what I saw!

V.

Victoryan · Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:51 am

Cool,

In regards to my family's case:

1) doubt there'll be a pram (just a change bag and a baby-bjorn if he still fits - he's a big boy just like his dad) so wont need special seating there.
2) You're probably right about the ACL crowds making this all less urgent.
3) I don't mind whether it's at the front or the back as long as I can stand and chant and be around others doing the same I'd be stoked.
4) I think I'm probably getting all stressed out for no reason - just would love for this to go down really well so we can make it a regular occurance in the future.

In fact I should stress that it's really not the swearing that I see as a problem.
Even the "Melbourne is so wonderful" chant isn't a major problem as I doubt she'll hear those words or even work out what the words mean for a few years yet and by then hopefully we'll have her singing different lyrics (the chant rocks apart from that).
The "Sydney is so..." section I don't know about - I'll leave it up to her Mother to decide what to do I think.
If truth be told I'll probably need someone near me to kick remind me when I let the regular odd naughty word slip :oops:

So yeah just the chauvinism and the lessons she may learn by seeing how others treat people worry me.

Victoryan · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:00 pm

CLMV wrote: There is no point going anywhere near the South End if you are worried about being exposed to drunkenness, swearing and offensive chants. They are part of it - and for many people they are the point of it.

There is something a tad contradictory about a terrace keeping itself nice.

For myself, I am not that bothered by my kids being exposed to the swearing and offensive chants. We do use alternative lyrics for a couple. We stay silent for tits out chant.

I agree with you completely here especially the second paragraph.
I guess originally with all this I was looking for advice and hoping to share experiences.

I have also always stayed silent for that chant. Funnily enough so did all my mates too which I wasn't really expecting.

CLMV wrote: If it proves too much, you can always move.
Absolutely - actually this is what we agreed when we decided to look into bringing the kids to the terrace.

CLMV wrote: On the other hand, if your wife is going to be shocked, you might find it hard to get away with.
I'm hoping if she meets all you fine people in the terrace she'll see the terrace as more than just druken yobos shouting at young girls...

CLMV · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:08 pm

post edited

let Monarch quote himself

lol

Monarch · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:35 pm

Victoryan wrote: Oh btw,

something i'd love to hear about is the experiences in the terraces of kids and parents of kids about 4 years old. If there have been any?

Disclaimer I've said this here http://www.melbournevictory.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1610329&postcount=58

I've taken my three-and-a-half year old son to the South-End from time to time. We've stood in various places, from just across the aisle to the very back row - essentially pretty much in the thick of it.

Frankly, there are so many others things happening that the chance of him (a) hearing and (b) ascertaining (let alone understanding) the words of any perceived offensive singing are remote.

I find the most effective tool is to sing football songs around the house with him (yes, really!) so he knows some of the songs and then ignores the others.

He's does good versions "Archie Thompson, doot doot da-doot" and "Ernie Merrick's having a party" [which ends exactly there!] to name a couple.

Daydream · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:37 pm

ROFL @ CLM AND Monarch both quoting Monarch from the darkside!!!!!

Monarch · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:39 pm

Sod!

(Note to self; read, then post, read then post...)

Where's the delete button? :)

Victoryan · Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:39 pm

Monarch wrote: I find the most effective tool is to sing football songs around the house with him (yes, really!) so he knows some of the songs and then ignores the others.

He's does good versions "Archie Thompson, doot doot da-doot" and "Ernie Merrick's having a party" [which ends exactly there!] to name a couple.

I thought I was the only one to do that!
I was trying "We love you Melbourne" yesterday - I also do it with the MFC (Demons) club song as a lullaby sometimes.